Chronology of an Expulsion by VVnW

DonaldN · #1 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 05:46 AM

I am posting some correspondence I’ve sent & received to show you what kind of people we are dealing with at the VVnW National hdqtrs.

The first are letters showing the chronology of events leading to my expulsion. Keep in mind that when I was suspended on November 9th, 2004 I had not been very vocal abput any of this because I had only attended a meeting at the request of two (2) non-suspended members who supported the ones that had been suspended at that time. I was asked to be at the meeting because of my previously being on the national board and national bylaw committee and had drafted the bylaws in use at the time. Suddenly I was suspended with NO reasons given! Read on…

DonaldN · #2 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 05:49 AM

LAW OFFICE OF
THOMAS A. O'CONNOR P.C.
398 WYOMING AVENUE
P.O. BOX 1829
KINGSTON, PENNSYLVANIA 18704
THOMAS A. O'CONNOR
TELE 570-714-1200 FAX 570-714-1210
November 9, 2004
Email and Regular Mail
Donald Niemeyer
6384 Burning Tree Lane
Fayetteville, PA 17222
Niemeyerde@comcast.net
Re: Veterans of the Vietnam War, Inc.
Dear Mr. Niemeyer:
Please be advised that at the National Board of Directors meeting on Monday, November 8, 2004 that the National Board of Directors, by a vote of Nine (9) in favor and Zero (0) against has suspended your membership effective as of that date for conduct unbecoming of a member. Said conduct concerns your failure to uphold the standards and principals of the National Organization and your individual actions, which have been a detriment to the National Organization and its mission. Your suspension is for an indefinite period of time and will be lifted when your actions are supportive of the National Organization and its mission.
The effective date shall be the date of this correspondence, which is November 9, 2004.
Very^ truly yours,
Thomas A. O'Connor
TAO/ah Cc: Veterans of the Vietnam War, Inc.

DonaldN · #3 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 05:51 AM

MY Response -
GUILT BY ASSOCIATION!!!!!!

This is what will happen to our country if it ever comes under the control of the UN or any other foreign body/group as has the Veterans of The Vietnam War, Inc. Foreigners have NO RESPECT and NO ALLEGIENCE for or to our Constitution or Bill of Rights and therefore they believe and they will always attempt to run over anyone and everything in their path to total DICTATORSHIP as has this parasite, Peter Forbes (look parasite up; it fits him perfectly. Merrium-Webster Dictionary: www.m-w.com/dictionary.htm . For the first time in my life i am forced to say: "I TOLD YOU SO". I forwarned everyone at the National Board by letter and in person in Washington, DC in Nov. 2000 that this person was not eligible to hold office in VVnW. They even forced the chairperson of the bylaw committee ( at a prior night's meeting in the hotel) to keep silent when asked if his committee has anything to offer to the board, knowing the chair person had my letter in hand. A board member, Earl Correll, who attempted to support me and get the information before the board was physically removed from his chair at the board's table and escorted from the meeting room. Forbes didn't get it that year but he was able get the bylaws changed the following year and now has comlete control of the organization, the bylaws, and has eliminated the opposing members of the board of directors and replaced them with his own hand-picked board of directors.

As you can see I have addresses this to all from whom I have received or responded to correspondence regarding the VVnW and its actions. I have no reason to conceal my activities. I have done NOTHING to warrant a decision of "cinduct unbecoming of a member, have never failed to uphold the standards and principles of the National Organization, and my individual actions are always forthright and honorable. You CANNOT show me one piece of evidence of written standards and principles of the National organization because they did not exist when I was the national Master Sergeant at Arms. Nor did they exist prior to and after that time. I was the chair of the bylwa committee and wrote both the State and Post Commander's handbbooks and NEVER did I see or hear of "standards and principles of the National Organization".

I served honorably in the United States Marine Corps for 20 years. I served the U.S. Army as a civilian employee serving and supporting soldiers on an Army Installation as a member of the Commander's Staff for 17 more years, and now continue to serve the U.S. Army in a consulting position to this day. Total official government/military service is OVER 50 years, and still going on. AND YOU ASSHOLES WANT TO QUESTION MY STANDARDS, PRINCIPLES AND PERSONAL ACTIONS! WE MARINES HAVE A SLOGAN "SEMPER FIDELIS" MEANING ALWAYS FAITHFUL. THAT'S MY STANDARD IN EVERYTHING I DO. I ALSO HELD THAT STANDARD WITH VVNW FOR OVER 16 YEARS. TOO BAD VVNW DOESN'T HAVE A SIMILAR STANDARD. I BELIEVE THAT IS LIKELY WHY IT HAS NEVER GROWN BEYOND BEING A MONEY GRABBING GROUP PAYING VERY SUPERFICIAL SERVICE TO VETERANS IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO ACCEPT DONATIONS. IF IT WEREN'T FOR INDIVIDUAL POSTS THERE WOULD BE NOTHING!!!!

SO, PETER, YOU CAN TAKE THE SUSPENSION AND SHOVE IT WHERE YOU GO THE MOST! (figure that out...)

DONALD NIEMEYER
Past National Master Sergeant At Arms
Past Pennsylvania State Commander
Past Post PA-53 Commander
Current Life Member of Member of Post PA-35

DonaldN · #4 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 05:52 AM

Letter requesting details of charges -

DONALD E. NIEMEYER
6384 Burning Tree Lane
Fayetteville, PA
17222-9649
717.352.9116

Mr. Peter J. Forbes 27 January 2005
National Commander
Australian Commander

Dear Commander Forbes,

On 13 November 2004 I received a letter from Mr. O’Connor stating my membership was suspended for conduct unbecoming of a member effective November 9, 2004. That letter states that said conduct concerns my failure to uphold the standards and principles of the National Organization and my individual actions have been a detriment to the National Organization and its mission.

Other than an e-mail letter I sent to National Headquarters AFTER receipt of the suspension letter as an angry reply to the suspension letter, I have received no detailed explanation as to why I was suspended.

I do not have the physical ability to drive to the National Headquarters in Pittston, Pa due to my age, poor health and I’m not asking my wife to lose a day of work to drive me there. Therefore, a trip to meet with the board of directors to find out the details of my suspension is not in my best interest.

I am now requesting I receive a reply containing a detailed list of actions on my part before my suspension, showing a failure on my part to uphold the standards and principles of the National Organization and listing the individual actions on my part which are said to have been a detriment to the National Organization and its mission.

I await the courtesy of your reply and feel that requesting your reply within fourteen (14) Days of this postmarked letter is a reasonable expectation.

Very truly yours,

DONALD E. NIEMEYER

DonaldN · #5 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 05:56 AM

VETERANS OF THE VIETNAM WAR, INC.
& THE VETERANS COALITION
International Headquarters
805 South Township Boulevard, Pittston, Pa 18640
Phone: 570-603-9740 - - Fax: 570-603-9741
1-800-843-8626 - - E-Mail: vvnwnatl@epix.net
Websites: vvnw.org or theveterancoalition.org

All veterans – all military welcome

August 12, 2005

Mr. Donald Niemeyer
(Address omitted by me)

Mr. Niemeyer:

This letter will serve as notification that a Trial Board will be convened within the next four to six weeks to review the written evidence and make a determination on the following charges against you:

Working to the detriment of the Organization –
The Veterans of the Vietnam War. Inc. & the Veterans Coalition
Discrimination
Sharing of confidential information
Conduct to the Prejudice

No personal appearance before the Trial Board is required or necessary as documented evidence will only be presented. You can provide a written statement to the Trial Board for consideration.

A decision of the trial board will be presented to you for any input. You will then have two weeks for any contradiction of the decision.

Yours in brotherhood,

(Original signed ) (original signed by) (original signed by)
Peter J. Forbes Nancy Verespy Michael T. Breighner
National Commander National Executive Secretary National Master Sgt-at-Arms

DonaldN · #6 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 06:01 AM

THE EXPULSION LETTER -

VETERANS OF THE VIETNAM WAR, INC. & THE VETERANS COALITION
International Headquarters
805 South Township Boulevard, Pittston, PA 18640 Phone: 570-603-9740 ~~ Fax: 570-603-9741
1-800-843-8626
E-mail: wnwnatl@,epix. net
Websites: vvnw. org and theveteranscoalition. org
All Veterans -All Military Welcome

September 28th, 2005

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS

To:

Mr. Donald Niemeyer

Subject:
Mr. Niemeyer:

Expulsion

The National Board of Directors met on the 17th of September 2005 and as per the Section 6 of the National Bylaws of the Veterans of the Vietnam War, Inc. & The Veterans Coalition ratified the notice, trial and conviction of Mr. Donald Niemeyer on the charges as specified in the letter of notice of charges.
The National Board of Directors voted and ratified the expulsion of Mr. Donald Niemeyer from membership with The Veterans of the Vietnam War, Inc. & The Veterans Coalition as per the Trial Board's recommendation. This Trial Board was made up of your peers.

Peter J. Forbes National Commander Australian Commander
Sincerely,

DonaldN · #7 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 06:24 AM

BRIEF COMMENT:
The trial board meeting was conducted in the presence of peter, nancy and with their puppy, mike brieghner reading the so-called charges. I was not permitted to know the time, date, details of charges or permitted to attend/testify. One of the trial board members is an employee at the national affice. One is an advisor to the national board and one is a snitch, liar and whining puke from the post (pa-35) that national took away from it's members who I have had the pleasure of knowing for years. NOW you tell me that is a trial by my peers! This is nothing more than the peter the furher and his Fraulein's new democractic method of control over the membership.

The entire board of Directorswas not there to vote on the expulsion.

DonaldN · #8 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 06:27 AM

This is my last (not final) letter on this subject. - Inclides the letter from forbes.

Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 6:35 PM
Subject: EXPULSION!

To All My Fellow Vietnam Veteran Brothers,

Just want to let you know I received my notice of expulsion from the VVnW in today's (Oct 7th) mail.

It says:

September 28th, 2005

To: Mr. Donald Niemeyer

Subject: Expulsion

Mr. Niemeyer,

The national board of directors met on the 17th of September 2005 and as per the Section6 of the national bylaws of the veterans of the vietnam war, inc & the veterans coalition ratified the notice, trial, and conviction of Mr. Donald Niemeyer on the charges specified in the letter of notice of charges.

The national board of directors voted and ratified the expulsion of Mr. Donald Niemeyer from membership with the veterans of the vietnam war, inc. & the veterans coalition as per the Trial Board's recommendation. This Trial Board was made up of your peers.

Sincerely

peter j forbes
nation commander
Australian commander

If you think for one minute that this will shut me up you're dumb as a rock! I will continue to do what I can to bring the bastards who have ruined a formerly, fine veteran's organization down. Which is not going to be difficult due to the fact that they are already lower than a snakes belly. How can a "trial board" consider charges that are so generally stated and vote to expell a person with out representation and not being told when or where the trial board was held. Told not to attend and refused a response to a written request for an explanation of charges. YOU CAN BET YOUR SWEET ASSES THAT LETTERS OF PROOF AS TO WHAT I JUST WROTE WILL APPEAR ON THE WWW.VETERANSRESOURCES.ORG WEB SITE FOR ALL VETERANS TO SEE WHAT A DICTATORIAL PAIR HERR FORBESY AND FRAULEIN VERESPY ARE. THEY FORGET THIS IS AMERICA AND WE DON'T DO THINGS THIS WAY. OF COURSE BEING A FOREIGNER, HERR PETER COULDN'T CARE LESS. HE WON'T EVEN SALUTE THE FLAG OF THE USA IN HIS POSITION AS FURHER OF THE VVnW! AND TO NEIL AND YOUR MATES, I'M SORRY YOU AUSTRALIAN VETERANS HAVE BEEN EMBARRASSED BY THIS PISS POOR EXAMPLE OF AN AUSSIE VETERAN.

I JUST VERIFIED THAT THE MEETING IN CLEARFIELD IS STILL ON FOR OCTOBER 22ND AT THE AMERICAN LEGION ! I'VE MADE MY RESERVATION! HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS? WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING THE PA STATE ORG ANYMORE. WE HAVE MORE IMPORTANT IDEAS! NEED YOU THERE, TOO.

SEMPER FI!

DON

DonaldN · #9 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 06:27 AM

This is my last (not final) letter on this subject. - Inclides the letter from forbes.

Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 6:35 PM
Subject: EXPULSION!

To All My Fellow Vietnam Veteran Brothers,

Just want to let you know I received my notice of expulsion from the VVnW in today's (Oct 7th) mail.

It says:

September 28th, 2005

To: Mr. Donald Niemeyer

Subject: Expulsion

Mr. Niemeyer,

The national board of directors met on the 17th of September 2005 and as per the Section6 of the national bylaws of the veterans of the vietnam war, inc & the veterans coalition ratified the notice, trial, and conviction of Mr. Donald Niemeyer on the charges specified in the letter of notice of charges.

The national board of directors voted and ratified the expulsion of Mr. Donald Niemeyer from membership with the veterans of the vietnam war, inc. & the veterans coalition as per the Trial Board's recommendation. This Trial Board was made up of your peers.

Sincerely

peter j forbes
nation commander
Australian commander

If you think for one minute that this will shut me up you're dumb as a rock! I will continue to do what I can to bring the bastards who have ruined a formerly, fine veteran's organization down. Which is not going to be difficult due to the fact that they are already lower than a snakes belly. How can a "trial board" consider charges that are so generally stated and vote to expell a person with out representation and not being told when or where the trial board was held. Told not to attend and refused a response to a written request for an explanation of charges. YOU CAN BET YOUR SWEET ASSES THAT LETTERS OF PROOF AS TO WHAT I JUST WROTE WILL APPEAR ON THE WWW.VETERANSRESOURCES.ORG WEB SITE FOR ALL VETERANS TO SEE WHAT A DICTATORIAL PAIR HERR FORBESY AND FRAULEIN VERESPY ARE. THEY FORGET THIS IS AMERICA AND WE DON'T DO THINGS THIS WAY. OF COURSE BEING A FOREIGNER, HERR PETER COULDN'T CARE LESS. HE WON'T EVEN SALUTE THE FLAG OF THE USA IN HIS POSITION AS FURHER OF THE VVnW! AND TO NEIL AND YOUR MATES, I'M SORRY YOU AUSTRALIAN VETERANS HAVE BEEN EMBARRASSED BY THIS PISS POOR EXAMPLE OF AN AUSSIE VETERAN.

I JUST VERIFIED THAT THE MEETING IN CLEARFIELD IS STILL ON FOR OCTOBER 22ND AT THE AMERICAN LEGION ! I'VE MADE MY RESERVATION! HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS? WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING THE PA STATE ORG ANYMORE. WE HAVE MORE IMPORTANT IDEAS! NEED YOU THERE, TOO.

SEMPER FI!

DON

DonaldN · #10 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 07:37 AM

Meeting in Clearfield, PA -

The 22 Oct meeting of the Concerned Vietnam veterans of PA will be held at the following location:

The American Legion is at:

210 2nd. St.
Clearfield, Pa
814.765.1152

Best Motel:
Holiday Inn Express & Suites
14424 Clearfield Shawville Highway
Clearfield, PA 16830
814.768.7500

You can get more information/directions at:

http://www.ichotelsgroup/h/d/6c/1/en/hd/exspa

MEETING AGENDA

Agenda for October 22nd meeting of the Concerned Vietnam War Veterans

1030 hrs Sign in, Socialize..

1100 hrs Opening

1105 hrs Welcome, Introductions.

Meeting rules: no alcohol in meeting room, Please place all cell phones on “vibrate”. Deal with issues - not personalities.
Time constraints, 50-50 drawing.

1115 hrs Discuss, add on to and agree on agenda items.

1125 hrs Report on the rejection of our intent to establish a VVnW Department of PA.

Entertain recommendations and discussion of our future plans.
This would be a good time to see how many would be interested in picketing the VVnW national headquarters on ALL issues. (After a brief discussion of this there will be no further discussion of the VVnW). A motion should be made at this time to make the meeting a NON-VVnW affiliated meeting

1230 – 1315 hrs Lunch, A donation can for the cost of the meal.
Please contribute to the meal donation can. The American Legion and a local veteran’s post has provided the eats)

1315 hrs Resume meeting.

1415 hrs Summarize results of Meeting.

1420 hrs Good of the Order – Individual Comments

1430 hrs Closing

Hope to see you there,

DonaldN

DonaldN · #11 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 07:37 AM

LETTERS REGARDING A WANNABEEEEE.

These are 3 letters I obtained regarding milne's wannabee "apologies" from milne, nancy and an interesting evaluation/comment from Past National commander of the VVnW, Jim Charles. Jim has passed away so I obtained permission from Jim's wife to use his letter to me.

FROM ME TO JIM,
Hi!

Thought you might like to see these documents illustrating the combat career of Mr. Milne.

I could find no indication of being Infantry, being in a Phoenix program (that’s secret) being a Ranger, or awarded the many combat awards & decorations he wears.

He is now claiming that he was awarded a 3rd purple heart.

Nancy is aware of this and there are two letters, one from him apologizing for his deceitful lies to the organization and one from her begging the members to forgive him.

Don

DonaldN · #12 (**permalink**) 10-13-2005, 07:54 AM

hAVE TO CONTINUE AT A LATER TIME. GOTTA RUN TO A DR APPOINTMENT.

DonaldN · #13 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 03:43 AM

Milne's Letter to Patille -

VETERANS OF THE VIETNAM WAR, INC.
NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS
760 JUMPER ROAD
WILKES-BARRE, PENNSYLVANIA 18702-8033 PHONE: 570-825-7215 FAX: 570-825
1-800-VIETNAM
E-mail:vvnwnatl@epix.net Website: http://www.vvnw.org
"Service Without Reward - Dedication to Brotherhood"

September 8, 2000

TO:

Jim and Carol Patille

FROM:

Michael Milne

There is no easy way for me to explain to you the reasons behind my fabrications regarding the fact that I was an Army Ranger. I do not understand it myself that is not an excuse, just my honest feelings. I apologize for my dishonesty with you and hope that at some time in the future you will be able to forgive my actions.
I want to continue to work as the National Commander of the VVnW and certainly understand your anger and thoughts that I should resign my position. I did offer to do just that, but after long discussions with Nancy she convinced me that I could still do a good job for my fellow veterans. I want to do that and can only hope that you will understand my desire to continue to serve.
I will understand if you still feel that I should remove myself, but want you to know that I will strive to continue to do good things for veterans and their families as I have over the past twenty-two years, and I now know that it really has very little to do with who I served with or what I thought would help the image of the VVnW, I will not again portray myself as other than just the ordinary U.S. Army Vietnam Veteran that I am. I hope that will be enough.

DonaldN · #14 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 03:49 AM

Famous "a vet is a vet is a vet" letter, containing Nancy's excuses for milne -

VETERANS OF THE VIETNAM WAR, INC
NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS 760 JUMPER ROAD
WILKES-BARRE, PENNSYLVANIA 18702-8033 PHONE: 570-825-7215 FAX: 570-825-3223
1-800-VIETNAM E-mail: vvnwnatl@epix.net Website http://www.vvnw.org"Service Without Reward-Dedication to Brotherhood"
TO: Jim and Carol Patille
FROM: NancyVerespy
Jim. and Carol: I would, appreciate it if you would take the time to read this entire letter before making any assumptions or decisions regarding the current situation with Michael Milne. I am addressing it to both of you because I do know from my limited contact with both of you that you share your lives so I would-want you both to think, over what I am to tell you.
As some background: I came to work for Michael and the VVnW in 1985 after a visit to Washington, D.C with friends for the dedication of the Three Fighting Men statue. I was widowed with a two-year-old son at that time and fortunately I was able to stay at home with my son at least until he was in school. I was in awe of the Wall, the Statue and veterans and felt very uninformed about the Vietnam War - the War -which was in full force while I was in high school. I admit I did not know very much about Vietnam and its veterans, but over these past fifteen years that has changed dramatically.
When I met Michael he was straggling to get the VVnW up and miming as a viable organization that would provide services to veterans and their families. He was suffering from, the effects of exposure from Agent Orange and had just been determined 100% disabled from his job with PP&L - the local utility company - not service-connected disabled, but from his employment. Never did he tell me that he was service-connected disabled.
He was quite quiet and unassuming. We became friends. I began to work with him for three days a week and then as my son started kindergarten and then, grade school my time increased, Through it all Michael still continued to work each and every day at no pay and for the most part with no recognition of all that he was doing for his fellow veterans. He did not have to do the job, he had made a commitment and was following through on it. I respected that commitment throughout all of these past fifteen years and even with the. current situation that cannot be something that I forget.
I never cared what Michael or any other veteran did while in the service of their country, nor did it matter where they served. My philosophy is that "a vet is a vet is a vet."

It never mattered to me what rank any veteran had, what branch, of service-all that I know is that I personally consider anyone who served his country at any time to be truly the stuff that heroes are made of- hokey sentiment, but heartfelt on my part.
Until you called me a few weeks ago and told me that what Michael had told you about being a. Ranger was not in fact, true, I had no idea. Honestly, be might have-made a comment or two over the years, but I never really cared what he had done or where he had been, it just mattered that he was a veteran, so I never made it a big deal or considered it of any real importance, nor did I ever look into it. Nowr I look back through the years and realize that the only time I heard comments about being a Ranger was when he had a few too many beers. An excuse-no, a fact-yes.
Over the past few years, I have seen Michael's health deteriorate and alcohol (beer) become a large part of his way of coping with the pain that he was experiencing. He does not take drugs, and... beer is not what he considers a drug. My personal relationship with Michael ended about two years ago because I could no longer watch him destroy himself. I cut off our relationship thinking that it would make him take a second look, realize what he was loosing, and actually want to fight for what had been a terrific relationship. That did not happen. My feelings were shattered and in all honesty he was distraught also, but he moved on, found someone else and has started a new personal life. I have as well.
I know Michael as a man who has truly dedicated the past twenty-two years of his life to making things better for his fellow veterans. He has done it as a volunteer. His emotions rarely were part of the overall picture.
Now, I wonder why fee felt the need to enhance his service experience with stories that were not true. I do not know why and in talking with him extensively over the past three weeks it is apparent that he does not really know why he felt the need to enhance his experiences either. As I said earlier, I believe that it does not matter where or when or what a veteran did during his service time, it just really mattered that he did serve.
Michael has been examining his past actions and I expect that he will apologize to you for the lies he has told you regarding his service. All I wanted to do with my letter was to let you know that while his lying to you was not acceptable, was not honorable, is not something that he should have done. I truly believe that the lie started as something that would enhance the VVnW - that it would make him more noticeable and therefore the VVnW more noticeable. Remember, always, that I am not condoning what he did, but what I am asking you to do is to extend to torn the consideration of all that he has done to make the VVnW a viable, veteran-oriented organization and somehow put his mistake in the background.
While this may be asking TOO much of you, I would hope that somewhere in your mind you will remember that you and Michael established not only a working relationship through the VVnW, but also a friendship that I am positive was not based on whether or not he was a Ranger. Knowing you as I do I believe that you would have worked with him no matter what based on the philosophy of "a veteran is a veteran is a veteran"_

His actions are unacceptable, he willingness to change is promised.
I will understand if you cannot find it in your heart to extend forgiveness to Michael, but I had to, at the very least, share my knowledge of him with you in the hope that it would help you to consider and forgive.
No matter what our personal relationship is, I respect Michael Milne for all that he has done and continues to do for the VVnW and its members. I sincerely hope that you will see that it is for the good of the organization that be remain in his position. As the Executive Director I know that there is no one who would make the same commitment that he has in the past and continues to be committed to in the future.
I would hope that you would take the information I have shared with you and open your hearts and minds to allow us to move forward to do what is best for veterans. I know you are both, committed to that
Thank you for taking the time to read this tetter.

DonaldN · #15 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 03:51 AM

My e-mail note to Jom Charles

Hi!

Thought you might like to see these documents illustrating the combat career of Mr. Milne.

I could find no indication of being Infantry, being in a Phoenix program (that’s secret) being a Ranger, or awarded the many combat awards & decorations he wears.

He is now claiming that he was awarded a 3rd purple heart.

Nancy is aware of this and there are two letters, one from him apologizing for his deceitful lies to the organization and one from her begging the members to forgive him.

Don

DonaldN · #16 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 03:54 AM

Jim Charles' reply to me -

Subject: re: letters
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:19:12 -0400 From: "James Charles" <charles-jm@worldnetatt.net> To: "Donald E. Niemeyer" <niemeyer@cvn.xiet>
Don
I read the letters you sent with great interest. While I had seen the letter from Michael before, I really hadn't considered what it said. I received a copy of the letter from Nancy in e-mail but it was one of those e-mail that become garbled in the electronic nether regions and I didn't decipher it Needless to say, I never saw any official document with Michael's "war" record. In any case, I found all interesting and have been thinking about them since receiving them on Saturday.
First, as to Michael's glorious war record, no where do I see the word "ranger", "special forces" or "Phoenix program." I do, however, see "Sr Dump Trk Dvr." Interesting ....
When I worked for the Vet Center, I had occasion to talk to the head of Naval Records in St. Louis. We talked long and hard about military records and the so-called "secret ops." He assured me that while many of the operations were secret, the fact that someone was a "seal" or "recon" or "special forces" was not a secret And, he stressed that a legitimate DD214 or any military record would state those facts.
For example, on my last duty station, my DD214 has listed "1st Plt. D Co. 1st Recon Bn 1st Mar Div." This is no secret. Now, I believe that most of what I did in Vietnam is on the record somewhere. I believe that we crossed into Laos once or twice because the maps had names "blacked" out on them but I am just guessing. In any case, in my records, when I was with Foxtrot 2/7, it reads, "participated in operation Hastings." After I transferred to recon, my record reads "participated in operations against insurgent forces."
My friend, Tim Fonderlien, who was with me in recon and later went to the Phoenix program after I left Vietnam, has in his records under principle duty always, "0311, rifleman." However, under "organization and station or theater," he has "Co D, 1st Recon Bn, 1st Mar Div," and "SOG, MACV."
So, as you can see, the organization that one served is no secret and there is, to the best of my knowledge, no falsification of records to cover facts about SOG or whatever.
As to decorations and awards, well, there can be changes from the "original" DD214. Example . . . well, when I got out, I have four decorations listed, a Purple Heart, Vietnam Service, Vietnam Campaign and Firewatch. In 1986, I instituted a search of my records for "other" awards. I was surprised that I had a whole shit load that came after I left including my second PH. Reasons, well, a medical records search showed that I was wounded when I was with Foxtrot 2/7 but since I immediately transferred to Recon, the 2/7 folks never bothered to write it up. Then in 1968, LBJ gave the 1 st Mar Div a Presidential Unit Citation retroactive to 1965. I, of course, got out in 1967 so my DD214 would not reflect this. The same goes for Naval Unit Citations awarded to 1 st Recon in general and my "Delta One" in particular. These were not awarded until after I got my discharge. Then there was the "Undetected Crime" and the various Vietnamese Awards, etc.
So, awards do change and are reflected not on a DD214 but the addendum to the DD214, the DD215. Funny, nobody ever asks for a DD215 ....
However, I seriously doubt whether the Army would entirely miss "three Purple Hearts." Nor do I see a "Sr

Dump Trk Dvr." getting three PH's. Finally, the record received by whomever received this, would reflect the changes. Today, an record check would reflect any changes since the original DD214.
Next, to the letters. After reading them closely, I believe that both were penned by Nancy as the grammar and syntax are hers. Michael's thoughts might be his own but the letter was written by Nancy.
Be that as it may, the letter from Michael is totally self-serving and shows that Michael is still in denial and is still hiding the truth. No where in the letter does he state that he was a Sr Dump Trk Dvr. He never does admit to that service. However, if someone were to see this letter, Michael could plausibly continue
the lie.
How?
In the very first sentence, he says, "There is no way for me to explain to you the reasons behind my fabrication regarding the fact that I was an Army Ranger." By - to use a popular word - "spin," Michael could say that this meant that he WAS an Army Ranger but exaggerated his true record. The phrase "the fact that I was an Army Ranger" gives him this out.
That coupled with no true admission of what he did, gives Michael the ability to continue the lie.
The rest of that paragraph is equally self-serving and equally evasive. To continue with the spin, he does not understand why he "exaggerated" and, if he can't, how could the stupid reader? He was "dishonest" in
his exaggeration but hopes to be forgiven.
Of course he hopes to be forgiven . . . how else can he remain on the gravy train and in the limelight?
Second paragraph .... "He" would do the honorable thing - resign - but that stalwart of veterans rights, Nancy, talked him out of it. "He" will continue, wounded and weak, to serve the veteran ("I could still do a good job for my fellow veterans").
God, I was in tears ....
Finally, in that paragraph: "I want to do that and can only hope that you will understand my desire to continue to serve." Of course I understand his desire to continue . .. how else can he afford to go to Australia, Thailand, Rolling Thunder, etc.? How else can he continue to live in the limelight and get the accolades be needs to bolster his ego? How else can he afford the lifestyle he has lived for the last 22 years
The final paragraph is basically telling the Patille's to - politely - buzz off. Michael will do what he wants regardless as he has for the last 22 years and the public be damned.
Michael alludes to "the image of the WnW." Don, I agree, a Ranger - decorated, of course - is more publicly worthy than a Sr Dump Trk Dvr as a head of and organization. The public loves that stuff. However, a Sr Dump Trk Dvr is more acceptable than a liar. Nothing destroys the image of an organization nor ruins its credibility more than having a liar as its leader. So, while the lie might have initially served its purpose, in the long run, it will or could kill the organization.
Finally, to continue with the first paragraph spin, Michael gives himself room to let the lie continue: "I will not again portray myself as anything other than just the ordinary U.S. Army Vietnam Veteran that I am." To the Patille's, that means he'll tell them he's a Sr Dump Trk Dvr, to the rest of us, he'll claim to be

just an ordinary Ranger with the normal three PHs and covert missions, etc.
I'm still sick to my stomach
However, I got sicker reading and analyzing Nancy's letter. God, was that a piece of work.
Don, I won't bore you with a complete breakdown of that letter. However, some things must be said other than "self-serving" and "self-congratulatory."
First, there are some bold faced lies and some serious omissions in that letter.
To begin, she says, after telling the Patille's how wonderful she and Michael were to build the organization and how Michael suffers from Agent Orange, "Never did he tell me that he was service-connected disabled." Don, this MIGHT be true, maybe Michael never did tell her that he was service-connected. However, she was present on numerous occasions where he told others that he was service-connected and SHE NEVER CORRECTED HIM OR SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT. Second, ALL of us have heard Michael say that he was " 100% disabled." When he ran for National Commander, his bio stated that he was 100%. The last time I checked, the Web page said that he was 100% disabled.
Now, on both of these things, it does not say, "100% service-connected." We assume that it means 100% service connected and, of course, we are wrong in that assumption. However, in context, we were certainly led to believe that "100%" meant "100% service-connected."
And, again, Nancy never set anyone straight. Therefore, since she apparently knew the truth, she's just as guilty as Michael for allowing the lie to continue.
Next, we bleed for the payless Mike Milne and the struggling widow. It doesn't say, however, that Michael would lose his PP&L pension if he worked and, therefore, worked at a job that would pay all his expenses but no salary. Again, we get praise for Michael from omission and innuendo, not facts.
In fact, Michael was doing quite well for no pay: his dump of a house was remodeled into a nice place to live, he had unlimited travel, he had prestige, etc. Who needs a salary when most all living expenses are paid for you?
As to "no recognition," give me a break ... the man testified before Congress and hobnobbed with the "rich and famous." And, as Porno John says, "I'm proud when I get to Washington and they say, 'So you're a member of Mike Milne's organization.'" Yeah, no recognition . . . another lie.
God love Nancy (he says in sarcasm) she believes "a vet is a vet is a vet." Don, I believe that and so do you. However, we LIVE that belief, Nancy and Mike don't. I have seen her in awe of "special ops" guys. She told me once when a guy came to one of the conventions, "He was in the Phoenix Program." She said this quietly to me and with awe - almost as this was a secret.
Bull shit, she doesn't believe what she says. .. another lie.
"... I personally consider anyone who served his country at any time to be truly the stuff that heroes are made of... ." How many times has she told me or said, "He's only an era vet." So much for her "hokey
sentiment."
Now, for the "big lie." "Until you called me a few weeks ago and told me that what Michael had told you

about being a Ranger was not, if fact, true, I had no idea."
Don, that whole paragraph is a masterpiece of evasion, confusion and double interpretation along with being lies. We are led to believe that she REALLY thought that he was a Ranger. Yet, she only heard this through "a comment or two over the years."
Don, she's so full of shit. One only has to be with Milne for 15 minutes until you hear what a hero he was and what a ranger/special forces/ special ops person he was. Nancy had to have heard this at least a 1,000 times over the years, not a "comment or two."
Anyway, by that lie, Nancy is dismissing her part in the big lie and setting herself above the politics and the mess.
She lies when she Says "I never made it a big deal or CONSIDERED IT OF ANY REAL IMPORTANCE." Emphasis is mine, of course. The point is, she knew how crucially important it is to represent yourself honestly as a vet. She took part ALONG WITH MICHAEL in exposing many frauds so she knew how important ones service was and is.
I will not dignify the phrase about "when he had a few too many beers" with even a comment.
Next, it's poor Nancy again. She does the noble thing by dumping Michael and he turns on her and gets a new girl. Bull Shit! She dumped Michael because she found the "Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport," There was nothing noble in it, just hormones.
And, since when is it noble to dump a guy when his health is deteriorating and he's a drunk? What ever happened to "stand by your man?" Noble would be to get him help, see him through his illness and, then, if you still want to, dump him. However, Nancy makes this seem noble.
Michael moved on only after he knew that Nancy was stuck on the Aussie. More self-serving lies....
"I know Michael..." etc. Three sentences of crock. Any service Michael did for veterans was AFTER he served himself as we've already examined the motivations behind the "volunteer" part. Again, he could not afford to lose his pension.
Don, are we really naive enough to believe that she "wonders why" he felt the need to enhance his military experience? She knows damn good and well why but she want the reader to think she is clueless.
Next, she promises that Michael will apologize. She knows he will because she wrote the letter. She blames him in this paragraph but never sees any blame in herself. She avoids the blame and makes herself guiltless.
Still, she tries to give Michael an out. He was only doing it for selfless reasons, "to enhance the VVnW." Don, she knows better, another lie.
So, now we wrap up this masterpiece by making the Patille's feel like they are the ones that have sinned and will sin again if they don't forgive Michael. Great move! make the accuser the guilty party.
She calls on "friendship" and "working relationships" etc. to justify this never stating that friendships and

working relationships are based on trust.
She even starts this paragraph by implying that the Patille's would be truly "little" people if they didn't forgive Michael by saying,"... this may be asking too much of you..." placing them in a position where if they don't forgive they are small, heartless people.
I love it... besides, "a veteran is a veteran is a veteran."
The two paragraphs are transitions to the real crux of the matter in the paragraph following those when she says: "I would hope that you would take the information that I have shared with you and open your hearts and minds to ALLOW US TO MOVE FORWARD TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THE VETERAN."
Don, that is one of the single greatest sentences I have ever seen, I wish I could say it was mine . .. God, I love it!
First, she reminds the Patille's that she shared her innermost secrets, she's opened her heart to them. Naturally, she's implying that they would be of a lesser species if they didn't open their hearts to her. In fact, she asks for them to open their hearts to embrace - NOT ONLY MICHAEL - but her by "allowing US to move forward ...,"
Next, she warns by implication, if they DON'T allow Mike and Nancy to move forward, it will hurt veterans because she and Michael know "what is best for veterans."
So, in one sentence, she tugs the heart strings by reminding the Patille's all she's shared, puts down the Patille's for not opening their hearts if they don't forgive, tells them that they will hurt veterans if they don't forgive: all the while sounding like a sweet innocent!
God, I love that sentence .. . !
Then, to finish that great paragraph, she reminds the Patille's of their commitment to veterans and seems assured of Michael's and her continued existence because "I know that you are both committed to that. . . (what is best for the veteran)."
Again, a great sentence leaving little out. If they continue to persecute poor, besotted Michael, they will be hurting the "veteran." And, of course, as committed people, the Patille's couldn't hurt "the veteran."
Don, this commitment to the veteran, if taken on Nancy's terms, also commits the Patille's to continuing or, at least, not publicly confronting "the lie." And, if accepted, it makes the Patille's part of the conspiracy even if it is just a conspiracy of silence.
So, Michael's letter is devious, evasive and full of "spin. "However, it pales in comparison to Nancy's. Hers is purely evil, (I wonder if O'Conner had anything to do with her letter?) Hers is full of lies, great psychology, evasion, marvelous sentence structure and syntax, omissions and, sometimes, pure bull shit.
Both letters were self-serving letters meant to assure the silence of the Patille's and allow them to continue "business as usual."
Neither letter directly stated "the lie" and both allowed room for spin. Now, what should be done? And, why did Nancy plead so hard for Michael?

Well, to the first question, I really have no answer because to do something might be to turn the organization completely over to Nancy and the Dingo.
She's distanced herself from the fray from her letter. Those of us "in the know" understand what crap it is but to anyone else, she's the innocent pleading for understanding and forgiveness. She's the big hearted one that is forgiving. She's the one that believes a vet is a vet, etc. Therefore, she's basically untouchable from this letter.
In a perfect world, she WANTS Michael to remain the titular head of the VVnW because she can really control him now - not that she didn't before. She's pleading for him to continue because he will do what she says. She's not too sure that some other National Commander will.
Michael becomes her lightening rod as he can take the blame and she can continue to be the poor, naive Nancy. After all, he's the liar, not her.
In either case, it's a win/win for Nancy. If Michael leaves, she will be indispensable to the new people as she is the innocent She can still control much of the Board and still have the support of the Attorney and Fund Raiser. So, by controlling the money and the legal, she remains in control.
And, if Michael stays, so much the better as she will control him like never before as she really has a hold on him now.
Don, as I stated many years ago, I think Nancy is the greater threat to the organization than Michael as she is the one that has been running it for years. Getting rid of her should take priority over getting rid of Michael.
Michael is finished except as a figurehead. His name still has recognition with donors and, as that, he might be needed. But, his run as a power is definitely over if it wasn't over years ago as I suspect.
Michael is not the problem; Nancy is.
Well, I could go on with this and REALLY get into each sentence and each lie but I don't think I have to with you. You can see all this as well as I. My only hope is that the Patille's weren't fooled by the self-serving B.S. handed to them. Mike and Nancy are trying to use them to continue their run with the VVnW as they have used everyone else - including me - over the years.
So....
Take care and sorry for being so long winded.
Oh, I'm not walking because I tore up my knee in a fall and will have my knee operated on sometime in the fall. Such is life....
And, GRANDCHILDREN ARE GREAT!
Love to all, Jim

DonaldN · #17 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 04:41 AM

I wish to say here a bit about Jim Charles -
I first met Jim when I was the PA State commander of the VVnW. He was asked to address the State organization. We became good friends after that. Jim was a PTSD and trauma counselor, an Adjunct Professor teaching about PTSD at a college near Scranton, PA. Jim had been seriously wounded by a land mine in Vietnam while on a USMC Reconnaissance patrol. He survived & rebuilt his life, obtaining a Masters Degree and doing what he did best, HELPING VETERANS. In December 1991, Jim was nominated and accepted in THE CHAPEL OF THE FOUR CHAPLAINS' LEGION OF HONOR in recognition of his service to all people. Jim was also elected and served as the National Commander of the VVnW. He served for 4 years and due to poor health he chose not to serve a second term. Jim passed away on April 17th, 2003. Milne, the past National commander, Nancy and Peter despised Jim so much that they DID NOT even recognize his death, DID NOT send a representative nor did they attend the his memorial services. Even though they were held within 10 miles of the national headquarters. This was a past National Commander of the VVnW who they refused to pay respects to. Finally a very brief note was put into the Veteran leader and just this last Veteran leader had a small picture of Jim in a collage of other pictures on the cover.

I can assure you that their actions regarding Jim's passing is the main reason I will never have the least respect for those people at national headquarters. They do not respect anyone who opposes their thinking, actions and their dictatorial commands. And, if ever asked, I won't sign a letter pledging allegiance to the VVnW!
DonaldN

USARV · #18 (**permalink**) 10-14-2005, 08:00 PM

This "chronology of an expulsion" was highly informative, though not surprising.

Thanks for shedding so much light on just how slimey these people really are. Hmmm, a phoney, a tramp, and foreign national con artist. You just can't make this up.

Ken

DonaldN · #19 (**permalink**) 10-18-2005, 04:01 PM

A Vietnam Veteran's Wife Sent This To Me.

Link To "How To Buy American"

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/index.shtml

DonaldN · #20 (**permalink**) 11-01-2005, 11:07 AM

TRIAL BY MY PEERS!

If you recall, (See "Chronology of an Expulsion, posted above) I was expelled from the VVnW by action of a "trial of my peers". Well, I've since uncovered the names of the "trial board". THESE ARE NOT MY PEERS! THEY ARE THE PEERS OF THE FUROR FORBES AND FRAULINE VERESPY!

Trial Board:
Mike Depew PA-35
Morris Miller - A national board advisor
Mike Murphy - National Secretary

Now, Depew is a PA-35 member who ran to national with big tales about the post conmmander & treasurer and started national on the road to "stealing" the post, its monetary assets and building from it's members. They then held a "post election" and Depew is now treasurer. He is in dept. to forbes & verespy. (That means he owes them anything they ask.) PLUS he hates my guts. (like I care)

Morris Miller - Him I don't really know well except he has his position as Education Comittee chair because of his friendship and devotion to the BIG TWO! THIS GUY WILL TAKE ANYTHING YOU SAY AND RUN TO PETER WITH IT!

Mike Murphy - Now he is really an impartial trial board member. This dude is a PAID office employee of VVnW as well as the national secretary. He's NOT EVEN A VETERAN! (Bet he's paid to be the national secretary too but we won't know it.) He owes his job to the BIG TWO!

WAIT! IT GETS BETTER!

During the trial the "charges" were read to the trial board by Mike Breighner, the national master Sgt-at-arms and PA-35 Past Commander and suck-up to the BIG TWO. His being there would not be a major issue except for the fact that PETER FORBES AND NANCY VERESPY SAT ON EITHER SIDE OF BREIGHNER AND "OBSERVED" THE PROCEEDINGS.

I'll bet the decision to expell was reached within 15 seconds and only because they had to sign it. Decision was made months before. How can these whimps stand up to peter & nancy and vote not to expell us without losing their positions and share of the "expense money" that is given out from veterans donations?

NOW YOU TELL ME THAT THE EXPELLED FORMER MEMBERS HAD A TRIAL BY THEIR/OUR PEERS!

THIS ORGANIZATION WILL GO INTO A TAILSPIN AND CRASH LIKE THE NAZI's MESSERSCHMIDTS DURING WWII.

IN THE MILITARY OR GOVERNMENT THIS WOULD ALL BE CAUSE FOR A CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION OF WRONG DOING BY A CHARITABLE ORGANIZATION. BUT SINCE IT'S JUST A SMALL VETERANS ORGANIZATION IT'S IGNORED BECAUSE IT'S NOT A BIG ENOUGH FISH-TO-FRY!

DonaldN

Chronology of an Expulsion by VVnW

Chronology of an Expulsion by VVnW

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