VVnW Forums Removed

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by slapyo, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. PararescueRed

    PararescueRed New Member

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    Victory

    I want to thank Donald Slappyo, the Webmaster, for his personal mail and his taking the time to explain his stance and his situation to me.

    I believe this young man has not only grown from this experience, he has made me proud of him, proud of all WE have done together, proud to be an American and mighty damn happy to have won a victory over what is WRONG by the forces of what is RIGHT!

    When the site first opened, I remember there being a promise of "not censoring anything." I am very happy that the WebMaster has remembered his words, has taken the time to rethink his position and has reopened the site to all veterans, regarding all topics, without the fear of being censored.

    The Veterans Resources site is up and running...let's show our APPRECIATION by having everybody logging on, getting all your bros and sisters to log on, and letting Donald Slappyo know that we're in his corner -- hell, he's proved that he's in OURS, hasn't he?

    WELCOME HOME!

    [email protected]
    Alan 'Red' Peers, VSO
  2. john spadea

    john spadea New Member

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    Slapyo you have the right name. No one is going to slapyo. Thanks for bringing the site back as it should be without censorship. I salute you for being an upfront guy and standing up for what is right. Thanks-- Thanks-- Thanks
  3. KathytheB

    KathytheB New Member

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    KathytheB

    Hi all,
    This is my first time here. I belong to that post that is having so much trouble. You all know which one. I just wrote a letter to our Commander and to National, and thought some would like to hear what I have to say. Here it is:

    To: Commander, Post Members and National Headquarters


    I have been a member of Post 35 since 1985, and have always thought of it as my second family. Not anymore. They say, as we get older, we regress back to our childhood. I guess it must be true, because I see this in many of our members. They either get their way, or they run to “Mommy & Daddy National”, and spread a lot of lies that are not true. Some of the people that went up to National to complain, had not even been to a meeting for six (6) months or more. Yet they proceeded to tell them what Post 35 was doing, how they were doing it, how the Post was being run, etc. HOW WOULD THEY KNOW? They did not even bother to come around to find out. And, why did National take the word of a few, instead of coming down, talking to us and seeing for their selves.

    For over twenty years, our post, as other posts, did things for their local community. We ran fund raisers to help our local veteran’s and also to keep our posts going. Now, all of a sudden, that’s not good enough. We are obligated to send the money from our fundraisers to National, and the Hell with our local communities and the people who live there and count on us. What do we tell the Soup Kitchen’s at Christmas time, and what do we say to the post members that are having a bad time at Christmas. “Sorry, there are no donations this year” or “Sorry, there will be no Christmas dinner baskets this year, because we have to send our money to National”, (so they look good). People who care?......I think not. National is allowed to handle things on a national level, so the posts should be able to do things on a local level.

    We had a home in York and it didn’t work out, so we had to sell the building. When that happened, we had members who dropped out. Why? Most of them did so because we did not have a bar. Others made statements like “They did not have time to help anymore” and “an organization could not survive meeting around someone’s dining room table”. Well, this post started out around someone’s dining room table, and has survived over 20 years. (And, by the way, we were sitting around MY dining room table, when that last statement was made.) Then after we buy another building, have it up and running and it is doing well, everyone who didn’t have time for us before wants to step in and take over. When we wouldn’t let them do that, they ran to National. Now National has handed it to them.

    Since our post was formed, we have held our elections according to our By-Laws (approved by National). We have nominations in November, December and January, and the elections in January. This year, our elections were declared illegal, because we had a member suspended from National. Why, no one knows, and as per the Commander’s Handbook, written and distributed by National, it states that any suspended member shall remain a member in good standing until found guilty by a hearing of their piers. There have been no hearings, so why was our election declared illegal? As far as I am concerned, illegal describes the election that was just ran by National. First, I want to see in writing, where any of the candidates, including myself, accepted their nominations in writing. At our elections, if a person is nominated, he or she must be present to accept the nomination or have written a letter of acceptance to the Commander. Second, this is the United Sates. When I go to the poles in November, there is nowhere, in the booth, where I have to sign my name to my vote. Why is it so important to National to know how people are voting. Are they afraid someone is going to send in more than one vote. My Daddy always told me “Those that do not trust are NOT to be trusted.” Third, our bylaws state that the office of Secretary is an appointed office. If National would have paid more attention to the by laws they approved, they would have know that. I feel that myself and everyone else on the ballot have been elected illegally, so therefore, I DO NOT accept the office of Post Treasurer.

    I no longer belong to an organization of “People Who Care”. It is an organization of people who only care about making themselves look good. I get enough of that where I work, I do not need to fill the rest of my life with the same crap.

    As for Tony, I feel he has been one of the biggest driving forces in our post since day one. He is one of the most honest and honorable men I know, and he has been wronged. He has worked his tail off to make this post grow and prosper. He has done far more, and volunteered more time then anyone else in the post.

    I was privileged to read a letter, sent to National by Carol in Tony’s defense. I also read the response from Nancy, our National Executive Director. From that letter I quote Nancy as saying “Walk in our shoes before you criticize what we are or are not doing. You are Uninformed.” Well, I would say to her the same, only instead of being uninformed, she has been misinformed. National, themselves, listened to “a few malcontents who would rather destroy” our post then join in and keep making it better.

    I can no longer, in my heart, belong to an organization that can treat their members this way. I can no longer be associated with people who can turn on their so called “friends”. People who they have stood shoulder to shoulder with washing cars, making sandwiches, marching in parades and delivering food baskets. People who have stood by each other through hard times and comforted each other through the deaths of commanders, family members and post members.

    I, myself, have had enough. I watch a lot of hard work go down the drain, but there does not seem to be a lot we can do. I can only hope that someday, the real People Who Care, prevail.


    Your truly,
    Kathy Bowers
    Past Post Secretary
  4. 3cav

    3cav Member

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    Kathy, a great letter from the heart

    Kathy, a great piece of writing, right from the heart. If the members of the BOD of the VVnW at National HQ read your letter and still think Forbes is in his correct position as Commander, there must be something wrong. Whenever I get disheartened about our fight against what has been happening at National I will just come back to your letter and read it again to remind me why we are fighting about what has happened. I hope you reconsider about leaving and help us in the fight to get things right again, regards Neil.
  5. barryjh

    barryjh New Member

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    i may be wrong. if i am ,anyone wishing to publicly correct me feel free to do so. i will publicly admit my error and apologize for my lack of understanding. the issue at hand, after sorting through all attacks and counter attacks is " were members suspended legally according to the standing by-laws of that time frame. were suspended members informed of their transgressions and given due process to answer these charges and have a fair decision made. all other comments, all other accusations and counter accusations are diversions from the true issue. this is the oldest political trick there is on the books. magicians use it in order to perform their magic. there is one issue" were members legally susppended and was due process given these members" there only needs to be one answer and one solution" Stading by to be corrected if need be. SEMPER FI
  6. DonaldN

    DonaldN New Member

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    "Kathy the B"

    I'm a close friend and one that knows what "the B" stands for. :) For those who are reading this, EVERYTHING she wrote is absolutely TRUE. This lady has been a very faithful, dedicated and strong supporter of Post 35 for at least the 17 years that I've been a member of VVnW. She was there when I started out in 1988. VVnW is losing people like her because of the way things are being done at national. I've talked to post commanders who are in fear of returning forbesy's whining request for a vote of confidence because it requires a signature which will identify them to forbesy and his lackeys. Commanders are afraid they will be suspended and even lose their post as well as it's reputation within the local community. If they choose to not reply forbesy will count that as a "we support you" vote. He has sent out a "win - win for him" request for a vote of confidence. There's NO WAY a post commander can voice a vote of non-support without putting himself and his entire post in jeopardy of being taken over by national as THEY HAVE DONE AT POST 35. If any of the vvnw post members wish to discuss more about what's going on with these suspensions and the vvnw national, please send me your email address through the PRIVATE MESSAGES portion of this web site. There are many issues you should know about the VVnW but may be afraid to ask national because you may also jeopardize yourself and your post. At Large members are welcome, too. Your money (dues & Veteran leader charges) is being spent also.

    We suspended members average 15 - 20 years service to the VVnw & have held office on the Post, State & National Board level. If you agree that we are "just a few malcontents" you have a lot to learn. Get in touch with reality. We NEED open communication between us as well and more importantly between VVnW posts! National keeps that from happening by refusing to permit Post Commanders e-mail addresses to be shared between them. There are a couple on the VVnW home page, but they have been there forever. I'm sure the other Post Commanders have e-mail. If not they're behind times & missing a lot. Also, You can't believe what's in the Veteran Leader. It's all smoke & Mirrors, nice things, pretty pictures, BUT, you never see the Tax Filing Information (990) Annual Audit, Annual Income & Expense Balance Sheet (that most organizations DO NOT conceal) and you NEVER see the minutes of the National Board Meetings posted (or even emailed to Posts) Yes, I Know, "you can go to national and view them". Wonder how many Posts can afford to go to national and find no one there, or hear it's not available at this time?

    Kathy - a great letter! I understand you're not wanting to accept the Post Treasurer position. I also, as difficult as it will be, hope you stay on as elected by the post members. They weren't given the opportunity but, you should have been voted in as Post Commander. The 2002 bylaws change permits it. They need a VOICE. I'd have voted for you, but I can't vote because I'm a member of the Suspended Posse. The Post 35 membership needs people like you!

    See you SOON! - Don
  7. Terry McGee

    Terry McGee New Member

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    ATTN: Kathy

    :mad: Don't give up Kathy. That is just what they want. The last thing they want in a post is someone who knows how to use their brains!
  8. CAD11

    CAD11 New Member

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    KathytheB

    Hey girlfriend great letter and all so true! You know Tony and I appreciate all you, my friend have been doing all these years for Post 35 and Tony. Post 35 members are going to be the biggest losers in all of this and I feel sorry for them. Tony and two other Veterans started this post 20 years ago and this is how a national board member from Post35 and others in the post treat him. They get him suspended so they can take over the post. Members who didn't have time for the post when we didn't have a building, but now that we have a post home to be proud of here they are getting rid of people who have worked their asses off all these years!! I know everyone says you should not give up the fight, but it is hard to even be around these people, some we once called friends. I will miss all that was good with Post 35 but not the backstabbing ass-holes with-in the post. We have made some great friends in the 20 years and those friends will still be there for each other. I know Tony and I can walk away and be proud of all the hard work we put into this organization. All I wanted to do was be there for the Veterans and help my husband in making Post 35 the great post it once was, we'll see if national will let it continue on or not. Like Kathy said my heart is not in this any more I don't like the direction the national organization is headed and at our age do we really need all this bullshit! There is more to life then VVNW. I only hope these people are held responsible some day.
    Carol D
  9. KathytheB

    KathytheB New Member

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    KathytheB

    Thanks for all the nice things you all said about my letter and me. I really have made a lot of good friends in the past 19 years that I've been involved in the VVnW.

    I am a life member, so I guess I really can't walk away completely. I just hope some day we can have our Post back without all the fussing and fighting. I also hope that someday we can have our whole organization back, and we can all meet in DC on Veteran's Day, go to the Wall, have our meetings and get drunk together the way we used to. We can only hope.

    Thanks again for all your support, thanks for my very good friends and thanks to all the veterans and what they have done for our country.

    Love you all!
    Kathy
  10. johnnya

    johnnya New Member

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    Kathythe B

    Terrific letter, I know both Tony and Carol from past meetings and trust me they do know me. You can’t let this insecure dictator, his personal board of yes men and a couple of back stabbing SOB’s get you down. Keep the faith because with all of the good people in this organization these clowns will end up defeating themselves.

    Thanks again for that letter, See you in Clearfield.
  11. tonyd

    tonyd New Member

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    Loveya Kathy

    You know I think your the best. You and I have many years of working for post 35. I can't thank you enough for your friendship and the valuble knowledge you tried to instill in me. That's why I kept you around, I couldn't have done it without you. Post 35 will be the losers not us. We know the good we did to keep post 35 alive and well for 20 years. They have no idea what nat'l has in store for them yet. Thanks for being there for me all those years. TONY DUNLAP
  12. tonyd

    tonyd New Member

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    Sweet Heart

    You really do have to control yourself, Backstabbing assholes in my post? Well it was my post, nat'l seen fit to take that away from me. A lot of good members will be missed by me, and lot of - lot of - lot of I take my first statement back you are right Backstabbing ASSHOLES in our post. Thank you for your vote of confidence in me and sticking by my side through the good and the bad. Loveya TONYD
  13. USARV

    USARV New Member

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    Response to Kathy

    I do not know you personally, but I know we know people in common. I have been writing since February 04, with no results.

    Your letter, I hope, was too powerful to be ignored. Thank you for standing up!

    Thank you for being the kind of person that built the organization.

    But please - let's fight on. Let's not let the bastards win. Oh wait! Maybe I was misinformed? NOT!!!

    Regards,

    Ken
  14. john spadea

    john spadea New Member

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    Switch

    I no longer belong to an organization of “People Who Care”. It is an organization of people who only care about making themselves look good. I get enough of that where I work, I do not need to fill the rest of my life with the same crap.

    kATHY: Thank you for those so true spoken words. We need more people like you to come out and post how they really feel.
    kathy I offer you and the rest of the members who are unhappy with the results of the election to switch over to Post Pa -61. Tony has been to a few of our affairs and we had a great time. keep your head up high you and the rest of the members in question have done obsolutly nothing wrong and you should all be proud of what you have accomplished. We will have our day. It will soon be here.
    HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN LA-LA-LA-LA-LA

    POSSE FROM HELL
  15. thumper178

    thumper178 New Member

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    Kathy - I read your posting. All I want to say is STAY. If you leave many will follow. The Brotherhood is getting stronger each and everyday. National knows this that is why the POLL.
    Your letter is so true - if there is some kind of help I can give you or you just want to talk on the phone - Tony has my number.
    So Peter or Nancy - You think you drove off another member -NOT- We will support her and many others as the days come.
    You call us the Posse. The Posse always gets the BAD GUY. Read your history.
    I am HONORED Kathy. Thank you for being there for the many Vietnam Veterans. We do care about our fellow men and women. Our families.
    THEY JUST HAVEN'T GOTTEN YET. Could be the water. I don't know. Kathy and help us fight.

    Thumper178
  16. joeblowj0

    joeblowj0 New Member

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    I am a friend in deed

    Kathy, I do not know you, but you write a good note. I to am here to help you in any way I can. Please be one of the few WHO REALLY CARE. I do not take these words lightly. I do, how ever take them to heart. I'm affraid national uses these words as a front. Take care , I hope to be your friend. I'm just a getting old Vietnam Veterans who cares :) . Some of my friends may argue that point.
  17. Big Moose

    Big Moose New Member

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    Big Moose: I also know why it was requested, and who, singley requested it!!!
    We will win out in the end, and our victory will be here soon. No Foreigner will tell a United States Veteran what he can or cannot do.
  18. Warveteran

    Warveteran New Member

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    Consitutional Rights


    True?

    However, the Consitution was written to protect Consitutional Rights of all American citizens. If you believe you personally can stifle my fee speech, do so. I will have you charged with violating my Consitutional Right of Free Speech, a Federal Offense.

    I also suggest that before you become a one man dictatorship you fully understand the total and complete compliance of Consitutional law and how every state in the union and every person within that state must comply with all Consitutional Laws.
  19. TinCanMan

    TinCanMan Active Member

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    True? of course it's true. If I own a forum. I can dictate what you say. and if you persist in going against my wishes I can preclude you from posting. There are thousands of forums and moderated USENET groups that do this daily. Recommend you try to read what the Constitution first before you unload that kind of nonsense. You aren't going to have me charged with anything, that would have to be a decision made by a Federal Prosecutor.
  20. slapyo

    slapyo Administrator Staff Member

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    Just to jump in here and toss something out. A website is private. It is owned by some person and it's their rules, within reason of course, that must be followed. If they want or don't want information posted then it's up to them, not the government. You voluntarily sign up to talk. It is then your choice as to whether or not you want to continue to follow the rules set out by the board and carry on discussions with the other members.

    Here is a simple example:
    A message board for the Los Angeles Dodgers. A rule on the board is that there will not be any discussion about the Anaheim Angels. Obviously they are both related, and it could be very easy to discuss them both being rivals. But a rule is a rule.

    It's unfortunate that there are lots of sites out there that moderate the postings based upon what they want and don't want to see. I can tell you that Veterans Resources is not like that. Since the VVnW left the site, I have made a promise that no posts will be removed from the message board unless they violate any rules. The rules are basic common courtesy rules. This board is going to be kept open like it is right now.

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